Curse

Mechz · Jan 07, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

[skill]Shadow Walk[/skill][skill]Leaping Mantis Sting[/skill][skill]Exhausting Assault[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill][skill]Horns of the Ox[/skill][skill]dash[/skill][skill]Restful Breeze[/skill]

I saw it being used in high ranking PvP (Millennium Army). Basically, the person's technique was to spike and pressure anyone who wasn't being mobbed. Dash cancels the shadow walk, and restful breeze for a net heal of about 300 (unsure of MA's spread). The player was pretty effective with it, though that might have to do more with skill than the build.

Anyways, I've been using this build for general purpose PvE (I'll admit, I'm copying every build I see so I can get a better feel for being an effective assassin), but I think there might be some things that could help make it more effective.

My spread:
Dagger Mastery: 12+4
Critical Strikes: 12+3
Healing Prayer: 3 (boosts Restful Breeze to 10secs, and then 12secs when equipping enchanting wand/focus)
Jeahr's Daggers (I -never- run out of energy)

What do you guys think of Dark Escape over Dash, and Feigned Neutrality over Restful Breeze?

the old 12/12/3 probably doesn't suit this build, either.

The build is very good as-is at keeping an enemy hard-mode caster on his knees. However, Death Blossom may be more useful than Horns of the Ox in low-end PvE.

Terraban · Jan 07, 2008, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Sorry to be brief and blunt, but almost the whole build needs changed for PvE.

horseradish · Jan 07, 2008, 06:07 AM // 06:07

-No rez.....

-Cripple is not that effective in PvE

-PvE opponents have a high energy regen. Exhausting Assault is useless.

-How little health do you have?

Mechz · Jan 07, 2008, 06:32 AM // 06:32

-Playing with low health and no rez is more of a preference on my part. Having high HP when it's not my job to tank and wasting a slot on utility rez compromises my ability to help the team kill faster. I'm in, I kill something important, I'm out.

-Cripple is indeed bad for PvE. Unsuspecting strike would probably fit the Lead Attack role far better; since I'm supposed to run in and take something down without the rest of my team worrying about it.

-Exhausting Assault is there to get Moebius Strike fired off sooner. An alternative could be Golden Phoenix Strike; with Critical Defenses (or Critical Agility?) running in the background, I guess. If I start doing that, then I can dump Dash and Shadow Walk for just Death's Retreat.

-330. I understand that playing your own way can get you killed in a PUG; but I tend to work with friends, and we all know exactly what eachother is doing.

Sound like good plans? More opinions?

Bobby2 · Jan 07, 2008, 07:52 AM // 07:52

EDIT: no harshness. But PvE is VERY different from PvP.

You have access to CritAgility, so you should use it if you intend on being a dagger sin. The point is, when you're hanging things off crit certainty, your build will end up like this:

CritAgility + CritDefenses, Mystic Regen + Way of Perfection, Golden Phoenix Strike-Critical Strike-Moebius-Blossom.

Which is basically what every PvE Sin is running (minor personal tweaks notwithstanding), because it's good. You could even get away with having HP that low, though once things get hard you'll require a genius Monk. Emp (my Sin) has almost twice your Sin's health. You might hit a bit harder but it's about who's still standing at the end, remember?

oh and next time just check pvxwiki

Mechz · Jan 07, 2008, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

EDIT: no harshness. But PvE is VERY different from PvP.

You have access to CritAgility, so you should use it if you intend on being a dagger sin. The point is, when you're hanging things off crit certainty, your build will end up like this:

CritAgility + CritDefenses, Mystic Regen + Way of Perfection, Golden Phoenix Strike-Critical Strike-Moebius-Blossom.

Which is basically what every PvE Sin is running (minor personal tweaks notwithstanding), because it's good. You could even get away with having HP that low, though once things get hard you'll require a genius Monk. Emp (my Sin) has almost twice your Sin's health. You might hit a bit harder but it's about who's still standing at the end, remember?

oh and next time just check pvxwiki

I actually didn't even know about PvX Wiki until just now... I always wondered why GW Wiki stopped having builds @_@

Man, it really does suck to know that the funnest profession to play is also the one limited to pretty much a single PvE build. ._________.

Yanman.be · Jan 07, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

I really doubt those PvP'ers used those runes lol!

Gambit Shinobi · Jan 07, 2008, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechz

I actually didn't even know about PvX Wiki until just now... I always wondered why GW Wiki stopped having builds @_@

Yeah, wiki doesn't have many links to PvX. You kinda have to look for it or have someone else tell you about it if you didn't already know...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechz

Man, it really does suck to know that the funnest profession to play is also the one limited to pretty much a single PvE build. ._________.

I run many builds for PvE, depending on the situation. True, the usual Crit. Agility + Eye, Moebius + DB spam, and Mystic Regen/WoP (not both) is very popular, but that's because it works best in most situations. It is by no means the ONLY build PvE Sins run. Shadow Stepping and using other weapons and builds is also fun and effective.

However, your build at the top, as it is, doesn't seem like it'd be very good for PvE. Then again, if you can somehow make it work and have fun with the build without gimping your party, then go for it. Unless you're doing hard dungeons or missions, you're soloing anyway. So you can run any build you feel like.

chesterocks7 · Jan 07, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechz

I actually didn't even know about PvX Wiki until just now... I always wondered why GW Wiki stopped having builds @_@

Man, it really does suck to know that the funnest profession to play is also the one limited to pretty much a single PvE build. ._________.

have no fear! that is certainly not the only build you are restricted to. i am currently using my sin and have reached the end of factions after a loooong break and have come up with a build that works suprisingly well for me in pve:
[skill]assassin's promise[/skill][skill]iron palm[/skill][skill]fox fangs[/skill][skill]twisting fangs[/skill][skill]critical eye[/skill][skill]death's charge[/skill][skill]heart of shadow[/skill][skill]signet of capture[/skill]or[skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
now this build still needs some polishing up, but so far it has worked very well for me. as soon as i get some zealous daggers im going to replace[skill]death's charge[/skill]with[skill]dark prison[/skill] and hopefully an attack skill that's not part of the chain for those enemies who live through it.

Bowstring Badass · Jan 07, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

2 Superiors is stupid the 5 damage bonus you can possibly get is not worth it. Then again 2 majors was stupid but people used em anyway

.

Mechz · Jan 08, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

2 Superiors is stupid the 5 damage bonus you can possibly get is not worth it. Then again 2 majors was stupid but people used em anyway

.

It's rather circumstantial. I never travel that low when I'm doing PUG work--- on the other hand, I've -never- died while playing with friends... So, to have all of that extra HP "Just in case" is rather wasteful, while I'll be consistently doing "an extra five damage" every one second, which will add up.

DDL · Jan 08, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

have no fear! that is certainly not the only build you are restricted to. i am currently using my sin and have reached the end of factions after a loooong break and have come up with a build that works suprisingly well for me in pve:
[skill]assassin's promise[/skill][skill]iron palm[/skill][skill]fox fangs[/skill][skill]twisting fangs[/skill][skill]critical eye[/skill][skill]death's charge[/skill][skill]heart of shadow[/skill][skill]signet of capture[/skill]or[skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
now this build still needs some polishing up, but so far it has worked very well for me. as soon as i get some zealous daggers im going to replace[skill]death's charge[/skill]with[skill]dark prison[/skill] and hopefully an attack skill that's not part of the chain for those enemies who live through it.

Can I just ask: why fox fangs, and not wild strike?

To be honest, I've never worked out why anyone would take fox fangs over wild strike. WS seems to be...basically better in every respect. Am I missing something?

Also, while I agree that AP is a lovely elite in PvE, given that you have iron palm...would it not be more apposite to take something that exploits the KD? Falling spider etc etc?

I admit, I suspect I'm fairly horrible as a sin, but I've found this chain to be quite fun (I only have Proph & factions, or I'd drop MOI and put more hex-tastic stuff in there, since casting two hexes on an opponent is tedious and..well, a bit stupid. HotO could work in place of one of the duals, I guess, but deep wound and '++++damage from recharging attacks' is lovely):

[skill]Critical Defenses[/skill]
[skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill]
[skill]Mark of Instability[/skill]
[skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill]
[skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill]
[skill]Falling Spider[/skill]
[skill]Blades of Steel[/skill]
[skill]Way of Perfection[/skill]/
[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

It's a tad vulnerable, in that if you fail to secure a kill within the AP hextime, you're a bit useless for a while, but you can get even HM folks pretty damn close to death with a single run through the chain, and the two duals and offhands are versatile enough to let you use them out of sequence if all goes wrong (damn you, reckless haste/Price of failure necros!), so you can still do some damage before you run off swearing. In fact, this is one of the things I like about it: it requires you to stay on your toes and keep thinking, rather than mindlessly Moebius/DB spamming.

anonymous · Jan 09, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDL

stuff about fox fangs and other stuff

Fox fangs has a 1/2 second activation, thats what it has over wild strike. I still prefer wild though.

horseradish · Jan 09, 2008, 02:06 AM // 02:06

IAS > Fox Fangs

Bobby2 · Jan 09, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Agreed. Barring Assacasters, not running CritAgility in PvE seems like handicapping yourself.

Mechz · Jan 09, 2008, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Agreed. Barring Assacasters, not running CritAgility in PvE seems like handicapping yourself.

Up until now, I've had a qualm about using PvE only skills... Although now, I see that PvE skills aren't a sign of laziness or incompetence, but actually just a way to put the odds back into the player's favor, with the enemy mobs outclassing you in every aspect except mental capacity.

Davion · Jan 11, 2008, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Not trying to be a stick in the works DDL... but for your own skill set you proffered...what lead attack to start the chain?

Bobby2 · Jan 11, 2008, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Are you serious?

Davion · Jan 11, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Extremely.....2 hex...2 enchant....2 offhand...2 dual...

unless he intended golden fox or golden lotus instead of golden phoenix....there is no usable chain...no lead to start it off with.

And if it is intended to be used as is...its a mute option. turns sin into a body with no use barring 2 hexes to contribute.

hence it was a fair question i asked of DDL... BOBBY

ensoriki · Jan 11, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Take out Horns of the ox
Put in Critical Agility

Take out shadow walk
Put in something without a 30 second down time

Maybe Critical eye to help energy if you need it.

Really if you want this build to be pve compatible

Just remove shadow walk and Horns, it's not hard to find things that can replace them well.